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Tourist
Posts: 2

Hero 9 bad quality all around

[ New ]

Hello all.

 

A bit of background: this is my first GoPro, and I did some extensive research on this (configurations, etc.).

I also come from the "photography land", so I already have some knowledge on the theory regarding color grading and footage in general. But regarding video, I'm getting into it now.

 

Sadly, no matter how much I try, I can't get a decent footage. My main problem is the washed out footage, and simply lack of detail. Crispy edges also are nowhere to be seen...

 

My "best work" so far (laughable I know) can be seen here:

https://youtu.be/KcJ8TxYlmzI
Configs:

Iso 100-200; 4k60fps; Shutter 1/120; Linear + Horizon leveling; Hypersmooth Boosted; Flat color; White Balance Neutral; Bitrate High; Sharpness minimum; Exported in 1440p60fps

 

I selected these config to be able to do most of the work in post (I use Davinci Resolve), but no matter how much I try, with various settings and changes, or even multiple types of filters/effects, the best I can get is what that video shows. No sharpness at all (and if I can get some, the noise just pops out), and no colour at all (allways hazed out, even with changing contrast, adjusting curves, using "dehaze" effect, etc.).

I chose to do the work in post since I already have experience in photography...

 

In comparison to a video a friend posted, from the same day, and same location:

https://youtu.be/EwU5VRXer98?t=38
Hero 8, everything in auto, colour GoPro, EV -0,5, 4k60fps, no colour grading

 

I just wanted a decent capture of my rides... and I just get frustrated after paying the value of the Hero 9, and simply not being able to get something with quality..

 

Any help, at all, would be greattly apreciated. Btw, this is my first post here, and I created an account here for this thread. sory for any bad english, I'm from Portugal.

MT09 SP 2019 ; Akrapovic Titanium ExhaustGoPro 9 - 4k 60FPS - Linear Horizon LevelingAudio mode - Stereo with Windslayer Foam

Accepted Solutions
Backpacker
Posts: 8,194

Re: Hero 9 bad quality all around

[ New ]

Your English is fine, you communicated the issue you're having perfectly and it was easily understandable.  I can barely speak English and it's my native language!

 

Anyway, onto the issue.

 

Your friends footage looks "sharp" because he put everything in auto and therefore didn't have the wrong settings on his camera.  In fact his footage look's artificially sharp like there's almost too much enhancement going on.  So believe it or not, your image looks better as it's a more natural smoother look.

 

Let's go through your settings:

 

Configs:

Iso 100-200; 4k60fps; 

So this is pretty good, You should be shooting at a high resolution and frame rate to increase your editing options later.

 

Shutter 1/120;

So this is where things get interesting, your shutter speed is reflecting an old and a bit outdated rule of doubling the frame rate.  The reason you do this is to try and get a smoother motion blur and therefore more natural looking "Film" look.  Therefore your footage while pleasing, is simply not going to be "sharp" like your friends footage.

 

 

Linear + Horizon leveling;

So selecting linear does get rid of Fisheye distortion, but it also crops your footage and then zooms in to fill the screen.  So now you've just dropped resolution.  Same with Horizon leveling.  So technically that's 2 crops you're using.  You're best off filming in wide, using more of sensor (so no cropping), and then if you are using Adobe Premier Pro, either crop in post or use the GoPro FX plug in to apply a lens correction to remove the distortion.

 

Hypersmooth Boosted;

Why???  You're not riding off road on a dirt bike.  You're not jogging over rocky terrain.  So why on earth would you select "boost"???  This is common mistake a lot of people do.  They select "boost" when it's simply not needed.  As a result, you're adding a huge level of cropping to your footage (Again) therefore reducing your quality even more while the camera is now doing yet another zoom in on the footage.

 

 

Flat color;

Which is great if you're doing professional color grading to your footage in post, but it doesn't seem that you have as your colors don't "pop".  You may want to try and purchase some LUT's or download some free ones.  Your friends footage also looks better because the "GoPro" color profile is actually pretty good in conditions like this.

 

White Balance Neutral;

Sounds like a good idea, but honestly, I prefer to set it manually as I'm not sure the Hero 9 has the best "neutral" white balance.

 

Bitrate High;

Good!

 

Sharpness minimum;

Again, unless you're going to add sharpness in post production, putting the sharpness to minimum will result in a very soft picture.  If you're not going to do hours of work in post, then you're better off not using so many manual settings.

 

Exported in 1440p60fps

And this is the ticket.  Your Friend had almost no artificial cropping and zooming on his footage and he uploaded the file at 4K resolution.  You however selected a whole bunch of settings that reduced the quality of the image, reduced sharpness and then you rendered the footage in an even lower resolution and you're wondering why it now doesn't look as good as your friends.

 

It's like a handmade burger.  The trick is to handle the meat as little as possible.  You grind the beef, make it into a patty shape... and that's it.  However some people think they have to keep folding and shaping the meat, squashing it flat and then rolling it again etc.  They overwork the meat, compact it too much, it dries out and then when they put it on the grill, it falls apart on the outside while the inside is so compact that it takes longer to cook and while the inside is cooking the outside is getting burned.  You end up with a burned on the outside, raw in the middle burger with no natural juices.

 

So you've overhandled the footage compared to your friend.  Youv'e selected the "best" settings according to all the professional tips, but the professionals spend hours, even days correcting the footage in post production, they even switch between programs (lens correction and croping in Adobe, color correction in DaVinci).  So the "best" settings don't give you the best picture if you don't put that amount of effort in post.

 

If you're just getting into this, I would put the camera into full auto and maybe go to manual settings one at a time.  For instance leave everything in auto, but set your sharpness to minimum.  Then work on finding the best correction for that.  Once that's done, on your next shot, have the sharpness in minimum and set your color profile to "Flat" etc.  Trying to do it all at once though with little experience will indeed result in poor footage.  

 

Hoping some of this made sense and good luck with your footage.

View solution in original post


All Replies
Tourist
Posts: 9

Re: Hero 9 bad quality all around

[ New ]

Search internet. You are not the only one who is having therse issues. In general this camera is useless. You can make better videos which smart phone.

 

Adventurer
Posts: 14,527

Re: Hero 9 bad quality all around

[ New ]

that day was over cast, and by far the video to me looked fine in my eyes . but  may not be fine for others.

Backpacker
Posts: 8,194

Re: Hero 9 bad quality all around

[ New ]

Your English is fine, you communicated the issue you're having perfectly and it was easily understandable.  I can barely speak English and it's my native language!

 

Anyway, onto the issue.

 

Your friends footage looks "sharp" because he put everything in auto and therefore didn't have the wrong settings on his camera.  In fact his footage look's artificially sharp like there's almost too much enhancement going on.  So believe it or not, your image looks better as it's a more natural smoother look.

 

Let's go through your settings:

 

Configs:

Iso 100-200; 4k60fps; 

So this is pretty good, You should be shooting at a high resolution and frame rate to increase your editing options later.

 

Shutter 1/120;

So this is where things get interesting, your shutter speed is reflecting an old and a bit outdated rule of doubling the frame rate.  The reason you do this is to try and get a smoother motion blur and therefore more natural looking "Film" look.  Therefore your footage while pleasing, is simply not going to be "sharp" like your friends footage.

 

 

Linear + Horizon leveling;

So selecting linear does get rid of Fisheye distortion, but it also crops your footage and then zooms in to fill the screen.  So now you've just dropped resolution.  Same with Horizon leveling.  So technically that's 2 crops you're using.  You're best off filming in wide, using more of sensor (so no cropping), and then if you are using Adobe Premier Pro, either crop in post or use the GoPro FX plug in to apply a lens correction to remove the distortion.

 

Hypersmooth Boosted;

Why???  You're not riding off road on a dirt bike.  You're not jogging over rocky terrain.  So why on earth would you select "boost"???  This is common mistake a lot of people do.  They select "boost" when it's simply not needed.  As a result, you're adding a huge level of cropping to your footage (Again) therefore reducing your quality even more while the camera is now doing yet another zoom in on the footage.

 

 

Flat color;

Which is great if you're doing professional color grading to your footage in post, but it doesn't seem that you have as your colors don't "pop".  You may want to try and purchase some LUT's or download some free ones.  Your friends footage also looks better because the "GoPro" color profile is actually pretty good in conditions like this.

 

White Balance Neutral;

Sounds like a good idea, but honestly, I prefer to set it manually as I'm not sure the Hero 9 has the best "neutral" white balance.

 

Bitrate High;

Good!

 

Sharpness minimum;

Again, unless you're going to add sharpness in post production, putting the sharpness to minimum will result in a very soft picture.  If you're not going to do hours of work in post, then you're better off not using so many manual settings.

 

Exported in 1440p60fps

And this is the ticket.  Your Friend had almost no artificial cropping and zooming on his footage and he uploaded the file at 4K resolution.  You however selected a whole bunch of settings that reduced the quality of the image, reduced sharpness and then you rendered the footage in an even lower resolution and you're wondering why it now doesn't look as good as your friends.

 

It's like a handmade burger.  The trick is to handle the meat as little as possible.  You grind the beef, make it into a patty shape... and that's it.  However some people think they have to keep folding and shaping the meat, squashing it flat and then rolling it again etc.  They overwork the meat, compact it too much, it dries out and then when they put it on the grill, it falls apart on the outside while the inside is so compact that it takes longer to cook and while the inside is cooking the outside is getting burned.  You end up with a burned on the outside, raw in the middle burger with no natural juices.

 

So you've overhandled the footage compared to your friend.  Youv'e selected the "best" settings according to all the professional tips, but the professionals spend hours, even days correcting the footage in post production, they even switch between programs (lens correction and croping in Adobe, color correction in DaVinci).  So the "best" settings don't give you the best picture if you don't put that amount of effort in post.

 

If you're just getting into this, I would put the camera into full auto and maybe go to manual settings one at a time.  For instance leave everything in auto, but set your sharpness to minimum.  Then work on finding the best correction for that.  Once that's done, on your next shot, have the sharpness in minimum and set your color profile to "Flat" etc.  Trying to do it all at once though with little experience will indeed result in poor footage.  

 

Hoping some of this made sense and good luck with your footage.

Tourist
Posts: 2

Re: Hero 9 bad quality all around

[ New ]

With all that info (and some info from other users in reddit) I think I will get the hang of it. Your help was extremely valuable.

 

Btw, just to clarify, I thought that recording at 4K, that would be the resolution no matter how much I would crop it.

In other words, as you said, only the "wide" view is really 4k, and then [linear + HL + "boost"] = [4k record, then cropped, the upscaled]? (or sort of).

 

My export in 1440p was assuming the recording was real 4k, and therefore, I was downscaling, and not upscaling on the rendering part.


On another note, I'm using Davinci for all post work.

 

Finally, I decided to do a little matrix and try changing 1 setting at a time. I know it doens't make much sense, but the setting that gave me best quality was with WB on "auto".... with that, its easier to work on post, sharpness doesn't bring out so much noise, colours are more real (not extremely saturated), but yet more vivid, and overall sharpness and haze is gone.... I know it doesnt make much sense but I tried most of the options in the image except the 2K ones, and my conclusion is that WB is to blame... (at least for me).

 

Regarding LH, I use it when recording other people riding, since on curves is a better view. When I ride alone the image is best on wide, so I'll have to figure that one out... x)

 

 

Again, thanks for the extreme helpfull post @demonviewllc 

WhatsApp Image 2020-11-25 at 15.17.04.jpg
Hiker
Posts: 9

Re: Hero 9 bad quality all around

[ New ]
Hello, I bought a Go Pro 9 camera today and after testing with HTC U12 + I am very surprised by the poor quality of photos and videos, regardless of the settings. I would like to ask what is the cause, weak matrix, weak algorithms or everything?
Backpacker
Posts: 8,194

Re: Hero 9 bad quality all around

[ New ]
Can you upload you video to YouTube and post the link here so we can see the issues?
Hiker
Posts: 9

Re: Hero 9 bad quality all around

[ New ]
Comparison of photos, taken at ISO 100, matched with size and frame.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=14FwaeZXUd-pywIFRQn_zJXxUCXA-ANaJ
Highlighted
Backpacker
Posts: 8,194

Re: Hero 9 bad quality all around

[ New ]

Not really seeing what the issue is as all you did was link to a folder containing "screenshots" and not actual GoPro files.  With the "screenshots" it looks like you're trying to take up close product photography using a fixed focus lens action camera with a small sensor in a poorly lit environment under artificial lighting conditions instead of using a full frame DSLR equipped with a proper lens.  In which case the results are hardly surprising.  I would suggest don't use an action camera for product photography.

Hiker
Posts: 9

Re: Hero 9 bad quality all around

[ New ]

GoPro - sorry but today's comparison showed otherwise (the go-pro is better !) , this is a wide angle sports camera and everything is optimized for sport, it also uses hypersmooth - it's brilliant !!!

Hiker
Posts: 9

Re: Hero 9 bad quality all around

[ New ]

test post 

Hiker
Posts: 9

Re: Hero 9 bad quality all around

[ New ]

I'm learning the gopro 9 camera all the time, but I don't understand a few things why HDR folds badly and elements blurry? The other thing is sharpening, high and medium degrade details, keep my opinion, image processing algorithms are weak.

Zrzut ekranu (118).jpg
Hiker
Posts: 9

Re: Hero 9 bad quality all around

[ New ]
Backpacker
Posts: 8,194

Re: Hero 9 bad quality all around

[ New ]

HDR combines 3 seperate photos into one.  So it should only be used with a tripod and a remote.

 

Sharpness settings are artificial post processing enhancements, I would never use medium or sharp on the camera as there's no way to undo that sharpning that it adds.  Instead shoot in low and sharpen in your editor if needed.

Hiker
Posts: 9

Re: Hero 9 bad quality all around

[ New ]

Thanks, I understand now, but I'm disappointed with the company's policy, because it's probably their marketing, we'll give you a contrasting image, degraded details, and if you don't like it, please work with Adobe Premier, Davinci, etc., wasting your time and energy. The point is that mobile phones shoot a much better picture from sharpness to colors. Exactly the colors, who made it?