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Tourist
Posts: 3

Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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I've got the Hero 9 and I've noticed the flat footage is nowhere near as flat as old GoPros. Is this a bug?

I've attached the Hero 9 and Hero 4 Silver footage. The Hero 9 looks like GoPro color. Somehow, GoPro Color is even more saturated and contrasty.

 

https://imgur.com/a/gHNTLnN

GoPro
Posts: 31,042

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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Hello @djravine

 

Image quality improvements will be included on the next update.

https://gopro.com/en/dk/news/hero9-black-launch-updates

 

Please continue checking our website for more information.

 

Thanks!

Ej

Hiker
Posts: 25

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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Je fais la même constatation. L'image "flat" ne l'est pas réellement. Idem pour le contraste.

Beru

Tourist
Posts: 10

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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I've definitely noticed this. Even with the update, it's still not Flat. Still tons of contrast.

Tourist
Posts: 10

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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Here's a clip comparing the Hero 9 Flat and Color profiles and the Hero 4 Flat profile

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGKGUqNCWP8&feature=youtu.be

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
Hiker
Posts: 25

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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Your video doesn't  work.

The link is broken.

Hiker
Posts: 34

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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You have the solution here

 

https://community.gopro.com/t5/Cameras/Gopro-Hero-9-Flat-Native-WB-Color-Grading-LUT/m-p/825221

 

I agree hero 4 flat profile has nothing to do with Hero 8 and 9. But don't worry, the hero 9 flat and native is much better than hero 4 but also really difficult to colour grade.

Tourist
Posts: 10

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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Here's a working video link:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kynnN8r2d3E&feature=youtu.be

 

It just seems the Flat profile lacks the dynamic range it should have. The LUT is a bandaid solution, not a fix for this. 
I'm not saying the quality looks bad by any means, but it is supposed to be flat (not raw, I get that),  and gradeable.

Been using the Hero 9 quite a bit lately and noticed that the Flat profile is fairly saturated and lacks dynamic range. In fact switching to GoPro's color pr...
Hiker
Posts: 34

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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If you want cyan and flat you have to shot on native WB and flat colors, not only flat colors. And yes, it is flat and the dynamic range is much better.

Tourist
Posts: 4

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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Super solutions for Flat/Native profile, you won't regret it! tryit out

Tourist
Posts: 10

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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Is that it? My WB is on Auto. I'll try switching it to Native and see what happens.

Tourist
Posts: 10

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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Switching the white balance to native doesn’t do much except add a yellow tint. 

Still think the Hero 9 lacks detail in the shadows. Wonder if they’ll fix this..

Hiker
Posts: 25

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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You mean: Native is the same as Auto ?

Just with i yellow tint ?

 

Beru

Hiker
Posts: 25

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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What is the definition of "native"?
A setting blocked at 4000 for example?

Hiker
Posts: 34

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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Native WB is not lineal at all, is not 4000k or similar, the temperature depends a lot on the light level so you can not adjust the WB with one click over one 70% exposure grey.

 

The dynamic range increase with flat colour profile, but it is impossible to get good colour with auto WB. You need to use native WB to be able to get the cyan (sky blue) and the red. My LUT is made to get the best possible dynamic range and colour out from the Gopro 9 (I also have the same for Gopro8) so use native WB, flat colour, apply the LUT and then correct the WB with any white or grey reference.

Download SuperCurro Gopro9 LUT

https://community.gopro.com/t5/Cameras/Gopro-Hero-9-Flat-Native-WB-Color-Grading-LUT/m-p/825221

 

 

I really don't understand why is this so confusing, it is so simple, make a test, record a scene with GoPro colour, auto wb and repeat again with native WB and flat colour, apply the LUT, correct the light colour (the LUT if for Sunny day) with any white reference (or grey) and compare the result. Of course in both samples, you always would adjust the highlights and shadows. You will discover that the dynamic range and colours (especially skin tones) are much better, a completely different camera.

 

Please do it and share the result with us.

Tourist
Posts: 10

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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correcting the native white balance doesn’t bother me. Applying th LUT doesn’t bother me. What does bother me is that straight out of the camera, the “flat” profile just adds way too much contrast and blacks, in comparison to other cameras. 

Hiker
Posts: 34

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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Of course, it is a tiny sensor, it doesn't improve too much compare with a Sony or a Fujifilm. But it is better, enough to justify to never use again GoPro colour and automatic WB. 

And you are right, GoPro doesn't improve as much as DJI (D-CineLike is much better than GoPro flat). But also it is true that the GoPro stabilization is the best in the market. The best stabilization with the widest focal length, until DJI gets a better product with D-CineLike colours this is the best we can do:

https://community.gopro.com/t5/Cameras/Gopro-Hero-9-Flat-Native-WB-Color-Grading-LUT/m-p/825221

 

To me is clear the difference in colour accuracy and dynamic range (yes it is not spectacular the dynamic range).

 

GoPro:

01 Gopro9 GoproColor AWB

 

 

SuperCurro LUT

02 Gopro9 SuperCurro LUT Flat Native.png

Hiker
Posts: 16

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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I just aligned a bunch of clips from Hero 7 and Hero 9, shot with Flat, high, sharpness low, Auto WB. (I usually use Native)

 

I had to several times re-check my settings (was setting both cams with GoPro Labs) but yep .. that's what it is.

 

Both cams together side by side, simultaneous shooting, to compare.  I was only changing the Hero 9 form 5K back to 4K and comparing stabilisation modes.  

 

The "Flat" profile on Hero 9 requires me to reduce the saturation from 50 (in Resolve, 50=+/-O) to 30.  Of course the "flat" on the Hero 7 requires lowering, which basically is NOT FLAT, dear GoPro color nuts.  Geez.  I reduced the Hero 9 saturation to match that of the Hero 7, also in "Flat".

 

Contrast is too high.  This is not "Flat" at all dear GoPro team.  

 

Dynamic range is interesting .. seems both higher (than Hero 7) and simultaneously lower, as there is some kind of soft rolloff on the highlights.  I have not figured this out yet, but very tricky, guys.

 

If I can figure out enough things I'm going to post this video.  The main reason for doing it was to compare the Hero 9 Hypersmooth (and advanced modes) with Hero 7.  But I ran into this garish color scheme and had to look it up.. and guess what?  I'm not alone.

 

Will they fix it?  

 

They don't care.  Obviously.  Notice the dates on this thread.  I'm screaming into the abyss.

Tourist
Posts: 10

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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Rightttt?? 

I compared the 9 with the 4 (first page of this thread)

The “flat” footage from the 9 is definitely over saturated with a lot of contrast compared to the 4. Could almost pass for the GoPro colour profile. 

Really hope they fix this, along with a host of other issues guys seem to be having. 

Tourist
Posts: 3

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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I’ve already returned mine.

I have no idea what GoPro is thinking these days. They’ve completely abandoned the professional and prosumers who use their products. Applying LUTs to Hero 9 footage basically just destroys it.
Nomad
Posts: 321

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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I've tried the LUT with native WB, very good quality LUT @supercurro thanks!

Although some pink appears be off even when correcting the temperature/tint. 

Only use native WB to avoid a colored banding that GoPro seems to make in low light (from indirect sunlight to artificial light).

But bending too much the colors in post have a huge cost with 8-bit depth color video.

About the flat profile: don't own previous GoPro but for me it seems to be obvious that the high contrast in shadows is keeping all the noise down while maintaining decent dynamic range in the highlights (specially color).

Being a high compressed videos, as much cleaner of noise the image is straight out of the camera the more manageable will be in post. Personally anything that helps avoid using noise reduction is a blessing for my PC.

Hiker
Posts: 16

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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As you say the heavy contrast is hiding the noise.  I was really bummed to see this.  GoPro might as well be named GoToy.  Pretty bad.

 

On the better side of things, from my tests and such yesterday (I should have re-shot them using Native WB but was busy today) I am seeing a couple positive improvements:

 

1.  Despite the noise, there is more detail, compared to Hero 7.  This is in 4K and 5K both, zoomed in and matched full screen.  It's pretty apparent, side by side.

 

2.  The stabilisation is OK.  The caveat is that you must never, ever use a setting more aggressive than that which you need.  So if you are doing smooth to moderate walking, panning, car POV on smooth road, etc, only use Hypersmooth; sometimes Linear+HL is OK, but if Hypersmooth set to high or Boost it's all over.  Literally and figuratively.  

 

3.  Still not sure if dynamic range is any better .. in fact due to the noise floor being so amazingly high, dynamic rainge loses several stops in the shadows, but the highlights are better, for sure.  That is, they roll off more readily, and smoothly, lacking some of the "ghosting"? that the Hero 7 shows (areas around twigs and treetops, with a haze), and the detail and color of the clouds shows better.  However, one must roll back the saturation before tailoring it back to something approaching nature ... did the GoPro colorist team get denied crayons and magic markers when they were kids?  Geez.  

Hiker
Posts: 34

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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@isaakonfire  You are right, sometimes the red turns pink because a 8bit problem, so you can see some pink artefact in the shadows. In the Gopro8 was noticeable but in the Gopro9 LUT you almost don't have it except with some red that looks like a little bit pink. But it is impossible to have the same colour than a pro camera and the gopro colours are much worse (everything is blue and orange)

Hiker
Posts: 141

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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Gopro live in cloud 9 where everything is skewed. 

 

Not only do they mess up colours but nothing works as advertised.

 

one can understand if your that stoned everything looks ok and colours look "sick" and if the hardware crashes after the tester then thats ok......?

Hiker
Posts: 34

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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My Gopro9 runs smooth, almost no crash. The 8 was a disaster (I had two and I sold both of them). I think there is a control quality problem but I am very happy with the "9" (I used to have, 3, 4 silver, 4 black, 2x8 and now this 9)
Nomad
Posts: 321

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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@supercurro Honestly I haven't tested your LUT in broad daylight, as I'm only starting to test the new camera, but obviously the little pink can easily be balanced with some effort, but overall very very nice colors. I tried creating a LUT myself with Photoshop eyeballing the color balance only to see it useless in any other illumination WB than the original scene. I'm an outsider to color science but definitely seeing your LUT quality I should start using color charts!

@genec445 For you may be a "GoToy" Smiley LOL But I've being fighting with my Sony APS-C for taking good colors for so long that I needed some strong colors in my life! jajaj I don't care if it's a toy, I'll pass it down my color correction hammer.

Tourist
Posts: 10

Re: Hero 9 Flat Color NOT FLAT

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Took my cameras out today (Hero 9 and 4) for a comparison. Both were shot at 1080, Linear, EV -1, W/B Auto, ISO min/max - 100-400, Sharpness on low and Flat color profiles.
You can see the 9 has higher contrast and saturation than the 4. Detail in the shadows is also lost in the 9 (can be brought back through editing). The 4 just seems to be more...well, FLAT. 
These are screen caps from the videos I took. No editing or LUTs..just the raw video files from the cameras.

 

outside 1.jpgoutside 2.jpg

living room 1.jpgLiving room 2.jpg