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Hiker
Posts: 24

GoPro 7 Black - 2.7k/24fps low light feels like running below 24fps

[ New ]

I am doing lots and lots of different tests on my youtube channel.

And for some reason when the camera is set to 24fps in low light it feels like it is actually running at 20 or below FPS, it does not feel smooth compared to 4K/24fps from my Panasonic G85.

 

How do you experience this?

 

Some examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4MaAPqwfTg

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NglKDtqghDY

 

Running it at 60FPS is nice and smooth, but is a less desirable FPS for low light conditions.

For some reason my eyes telling me that the FPSis under 24 compared to my 24fps footage from my Panasonic G85 it almost looks like its strugling to get to 24...

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Explorer
Posts: 13,041

Re: GoPro 7 Black - 2.7k/24fps low light feels like running below 24fps

[ New ]
Looking at your daylight video, I think what you are seeing is the stabilization having micro jitter trying to stabilize. Hypersmooth needs more frames to really work it's best.

As far as YouTube is concerned, you will actually get a higher bitrate and generally better looking video if you use 60fps. I know everyone likes to push the "cinematic" look of 24fps, but for video, 30 & 60 fps generally just look better. In low light, yes, it's best to use a low fps, but this is because of the shutter. A slower fps means a slower shutter speed can be utilized.

YouTube always re-encodes videos to optimize their playback quality. For best results on YouTube you want to minimize that amount of change that is done to your video during the re-encoding process. For the best quality, I always export my videos from my editor in 4K and use either 30fps or 60fps, depending on how the video was shot. If possible, I use 60fps because it allows for the highest bitrate (up to 85Mbps for HD 60fps). https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/1722171?hl=en

If you explicitly want 24fps on playback, try shooting in 60 or 48 fps and then use a 24fps sequence. You should get a smoother video and the frame rate that you want.

Lastly, if ISO 400 is too dark for you (which can be improved best by adjusting the white luminosity curve) then try for ISO 800. ISO 1600 works, but generally allows for too much noise/grain.

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Explorer
Posts: 13,041

Re: GoPro 7 Black - 2.7k/24fps low light feels like running below 24fps

[ New ]
Honestly, it looks fine. BTW: 1/24 is the slowest shutter speed, which is allowing the camera to expose for the entire duration of the frame. Noise is effected by ISO, not shutter. However, as you increase shutter speed you decrease the amount of exposure time, which the camera compensates for by increasing the ISO. You can lock the ISO MAX to a lower value (400 is usually good) to prevent the camera for raising the ISO too high.

Having the shutter locked at the slowest speed will allow the camera to collect the most available light for each frame, but you will get considerable motion blur (watch your hands in the video). Motion blur is interesting as it can give false senses of speed. Sometimes this is desirable of course, so you just have to make adjustments based on what you feel looks best.
Hiker
Posts: 24

Re: GoPro 7 Black - 2.7k/24fps low light feels like running below 24fps

[ New ]

Thanks for your feedback, but ISO 400 in this environment gives very dark stock footage when not edited in Adobe premiere.

This is when i run it at max 400 ISO in this same environment.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2Ou_Awyx0c

 

This might be ok to fix in post processing with adobe premiere for example but it will most likely not give a huge different.

In regards of the shutterspeed, one of the two examples i shared was in auto the other was 1/29 shutterspeed. The issue i see is not motion blur, as i also have videos at day light at 24fps and i see the same "laggy"results, perhaps its my eyes that just are not liking the go pro 24fps setting vs the one from my pana g85.

 

Example: 24fps daytime, i still see in both source and youtube video a sort of choppy laggy movement.

Perhaps it`s just me only, but it just does not eye smooth and confortable as i normally expect of footage at 24fps for vlogging in a idle/ slow movement situation.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAzs-S3iAF0

 

 

For some reason the footage looks like crap, it uses the standard max 1600 ISO setting and shutter setting but the footage looks dark, and it looks like its ...
For fun and giggles i lowered the ISO to 400 to see if it eliminates some of the noise out of the video for post editing purposes.This is the raw video, no p...
Hiker
Posts: 24

Re: GoPro 7 Black - 2.7k/24fps low light feels like running below 24fps

[ New ]

I just shot another video (still proccessing on youtube) but this time same settings but 30FPS.

 

I can see quite a difference between the for me choppy 24fps and the 30fps settings. But i cant explain i see it like that because i create lots of footage from my Pana g85 at 4k 23.5/24fps and i never have the feeling its choppy at those speeds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLJs2WwgMQQ&feature=youtu.be

 

I guess i am going crazy.

I feel running the GP 7 black off 24 fps feels a bit too choppy and laggy as if it runs at a lower FPS something like 20~21 FPS instead.My eyes feel the 30 F...
Explorer
Posts: 13,041

Re: GoPro 7 Black - 2.7k/24fps low light feels like running below 24fps

[ New ]
Looking at your daylight video, I think what you are seeing is the stabilization having micro jitter trying to stabilize. Hypersmooth needs more frames to really work it's best.

As far as YouTube is concerned, you will actually get a higher bitrate and generally better looking video if you use 60fps. I know everyone likes to push the "cinematic" look of 24fps, but for video, 30 & 60 fps generally just look better. In low light, yes, it's best to use a low fps, but this is because of the shutter. A slower fps means a slower shutter speed can be utilized.

YouTube always re-encodes videos to optimize their playback quality. For best results on YouTube you want to minimize that amount of change that is done to your video during the re-encoding process. For the best quality, I always export my videos from my editor in 4K and use either 30fps or 60fps, depending on how the video was shot. If possible, I use 60fps because it allows for the highest bitrate (up to 85Mbps for HD 60fps). https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/1722171?hl=en

If you explicitly want 24fps on playback, try shooting in 60 or 48 fps and then use a 24fps sequence. You should get a smoother video and the frame rate that you want.

Lastly, if ISO 400 is too dark for you (which can be improved best by adjusting the white luminosity curve) then try for ISO 800. ISO 1600 works, but generally allows for too much noise/grain.
Explorer
Posts: 13,041

Re: GoPro 7 Black - 2.7k/24fps low light feels like running below 24fps

[ New ]
BTW, thanks for doing these test. This is how we, as a community, get better at finding the best settings in different environment.

How about trying these two settings:
1) 24fps but without stabilization (you don't need it)
2) 60fps but with a shutter locked at 1/60 and the lowest max ISO that gives the image enough brightness. Since this is a static shot, lock the MIN and MAX to the same value.
Hiker
Posts: 24

Re: GoPro 7 Black - 2.7k/24fps low light feels like running below 24fps

[ New ]

Awesome feedback thank you! i will keep my daytime footage at 60fps, as i did not know hypersmooth did not work optimal under 24fps, i thought too much as you said it from the cinematic point of view!

 

Thank you so much for your valuable input! really appriciated your feedback, it helps me better to understand my test results, especially concerning hypersmooth at daytime.

 

I will try to make another video from a fixed position at 24fps to see at full time if the camera in my eyes come across more cinematic smooth as i hope it would, if not i just skip the 24fps all toghter for most instances and stick to 30/60 fps.

Hiker
Posts: 24

Re: GoPro 7 Black - 2.7k/24fps low light feels like running below 24fps

[ New ]

Thank you! i will try out those tests tomorrow during daytime including the 24fps vlogging test from a stationairy position to see if it feels smooth and cinematic to my eyes or not.

 

If it does not pan out then i just stick to 30/60 FPS for most if not all my footage going forward, i am trying to find the limits of this awesome camera to see how much of a catch all it can be and at the same time be familiar with its "limitations" so i can be better at making good content with the GP7. Its all about learning and knowing to use your tools to the best extend, i still have lots to learn with the awesome GP7 Black.