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Nomad
Posts: 60

Re: Export to H264 - 5.6K ?

As I started this discussion with a question regarding the possibility if H264 is limited to 4K (or not) and whether it will be possible to in future to also select 5.6K, I got a bit confused with all the different responses.

 

Probably the best would be if somebody (with the right software etc) could create a small 360 film to learn the differences in quality. But also to learn what the human eye can really see (eg is the difference noticable).

 

1. Shoot the video and perform the reframe on the Iphone and export the reframed video to both 5.6K / 4K / 1080 

2. Same as 1 but now perform the reframe on the android phone 

3. Same video but now reframe in Apple computer with eg Adobe Pro and export also to 5.6K / 4K / 1080

4. Same video but now use Windows exporter and export to cineform 5.6K and import to Adobe Pro - export to 5.6K / 4K / 1080

5. Same video but now use Windows exporter and export to H264 4K and import to Adobe Pro - export 4K / 1080

 

Not sure if anybody can execute this and perform the same 360 video with same reframe points and create all of the different outputs for 1 through 5.

 

Would be interesting to learn and see and understand how noticeable the different results will look like.

 

To me personally:

I am using H264 4K from the Exporter and next I import the MP4 into Magix video where I perform the reframe. Next I render the result into 1080p and watch my result on my 65 inch TV. So far I love the result, but wonder if any of the above different settings as mentioned under 1 through 5 would really show a noticeable difference.........

 

 

 

 

Highlighted
Hiker
Posts: 142

Re: Export to H264 - 5.6K ?


@bluewater86456  ha scritto:

Cineform, like ProRes is an I-Frame only Codec....meaning...here every frame contains a full picture..... easy to understand that this one must be much bigger .....and there is no recalculation needed for the app...

 

believe it or not......

 

or better try to playback both.....the superbig Cineform...smooth...the original...jerky


Thanks @bluewater86456 , yours was definitely a constructive explanation of why the file size grows so much.

The question now is whether all this leads to visible improvement or not. From the tests I had done a few weeks ago, I have not seen any improvement (starting from a GoPro MAX ".360" file), but only a greater effort of the PC to process the Cineform file. Tomorrow I will try again to make the comparison more calmly.

Highlighted
Hiker
Posts: 142

Re: Export to H264 - 5.6K ?


@wiljan5560  ha scritto:

As I started this discussion with a question regarding the possibility if H264 is limited to 4K (or not) and whether it will be possible to in future to also select 5.6K, I got a bit confused with all the different responses.

 

To me personally:

I am using H264 4K from the Exporter and next I import the MP4 into Magix video where I perform the reframe. Next I render the result into 1080p and watch my result on my 65 inch TV. So far I love the result, but wonder if any of the above different settings as mentioned under 1 through 5 would really show a noticeable difference.........


I understand that you can be confused.

Small summary:

  • With GoPro MAX Exporter it is not possible to export to H264 beyond 4K, and most likely it will never be.
  • The only way to do the tests you have written would be to share the same ".360" file between Apple users and Windows PCs from which to export the various formats. I am available for every test.
  • In any case, you can do the tests yourself with Cineform 5.6K or H264 / H265 in 4K by exporting with GoPro MAX Exporter, then elaborate everything in MAGIX and make comparisons with your own eyes. This way you realize if your PC can easily handle a Cineform.

The whole additional talk covered two topics:

  • Is it worth exporting to Cineform or H264?
  • Is it worth buying a GoPro MAX and having all these limitations with Windows, or is it better to buy an Insta360 One R and rest assured?

 

Highlighted
Nomad
Posts: 117

Re: Export to H264 - 5.6K ?

But the real question is stil not answered imho,, H264 with 5.6K output as rendering.

i hope they will make it possible, else why we did buy a 5.6K camera if only a 4K file can be made on export

My toughts that is.

Highlighted
Hiker
Posts: 142

Re: Export to H264 - 5.6K ?


@pixelnator360  ha scritto:

But the real question is stil not answered imho,, H264 with 5.6K output as rendering.

i hope they will make it possible, else why we did buy a 5.6K camera if only a 4K file can be made on export

My toughts that is.


This is true if you are a Windows PC user: and here we return to my initial controversy (see my message on page 1 of this thread).

Otherwise if you are an Apple user (........ they love them Smiley Very Happy ), you can use the software to reframe and then export the flat video (not 360°) at normal resolution (1920x1080).

Otherwise you can use the apps for Android or Apple to make the same reframe and export the final movie.

So if you want you can record the whole 360° scene at 5.6K, then reframe and take only a part of the scene, and then render 1920x1080 in MP4. So you get the benefits of recording 360° images with 5.6K, then you can edit them and get the final flat result, reduced to 1920x1080.

Highlighted
Nomad
Posts: 60

Re: Export to H264 - 5.6K ?

Thanks again and what I have tried and compared myself, is the following:

 

I made a small 360 film on a tripod. Next I took this .360 file from the SD card and executed the following reframes:

 

1. Davinci resolve (free version) can import the .mov cineform file of 5.6K from the Exporter software

2. Insta360 studio (free version) can import the H264 4K file from the Exporter software

3. Magix video can import the H264 4K file from the Exporter software.

 

As I don't have a modern mobil phone, I am not able to reframe in an app. So I use my Windows 10 desktop to execute the above 3 options (I also don't have Adobe Pro nor don't I have Davinci Resolve studio).

 

From my test and from the reframed footage, I rendered all the results into 1920x1080 and watched the outcome on my 65 inch TV.

 

Result is that the best result and quality comes from number 2 and 3. The Davinci did not give a good result and rendered footage was not sharp.

 

And although I like the Insta360 studio software, the problem is, you can only edit 1 video shoot at the same time....My preference and best result goes to Magix Video where I can load all of my H264 4K footages (from the Exporter software) and perform the reframing, tiny planets, transitions, color corrections etc. 

 

Again I am not able to compare to the other options available like using the App, or using Adobe Pro, so therefore I can't comment if loading the Cineform 5.6K .mov file will give a better visible result. 

 

My question was, is it technically feasible and/or is GoPro working on an update for the Exporter software, so that a .360 file can also be transferred to H264 5.6K? 

Is there any good reason why 5.6K is limited to the Cineform selection button in the Exporter software? 

 

But it ofcourse at the end it comes down to the question....is the end result when rendering towards 1920x1080 even noticeable?

 

So I am not questioning the GoPro Max since I am very happy with my end result, but if there are even better options and results, I am open to learn from the other users.

 

Note....I truly doubt if Insta has a better end result, because in youtube you can find lots of comparison videos between the different camera's. And although people are saying that Insta has possibly easier software, the end result to me looks that the GoPro Max still delivers the best video quality (compared to Insta360 One R). At least this is my personal and humble opinion.

 

Do I have trust in Gopro? yes absolutely and No i am not working for Gopro. So let's continue to use this forum to ask challenging questions, but let's also try to help each other...I really like to learn from other experiences.

 

And to all....please try to stay safe and healthy in this crazy time.

 

 

 

 

Highlighted
Hiker
Posts: 142

Re: Export to H264 - 5.6K ?

Well, I also did some tests over the weekend. Let's start by order.


@wiljan5560  ha scritto:

I made a small 360 film on a tripod. Next I took this .360 file from the SD card and executed the following reframes:

 

1. Davinci resolve (free version) can import the .mov cineform file of 5.6K from the Exporter software

2. Insta360 studio (free version) can import the H264 4K file from the Exporter software

3. Magix video can import the H264 4K file from the Exporter software.

Result is that the best result and quality comes from number 2 and 3. The Davinci did not give a good result and rendered footage was not sharp.


Warning: in Davinci resolve even if you want to obtain a flat video at 1920x1080, but if you start from a 360° 5.6K movie you must create a timeline with high resolution (in theory at 5.6K, however the maximum you can do with Davinci it's a 4K timeline). So be careful not to import the 5.6K Cineform movie into a 1920x1080 timeline because then you will get poor results. I fell into it too in this trap.

You should create a new project at the highest possible resolution (i.e. 4K), then import your MP4 (or MOV) files generated with GoPro Exporter, in Davinci's timeline, edit your movie, at the end you will render by setting to get a video 1920x1080. So you will have the best result.

Always using Davinci in my test to edit the same starting video, but converted in Cineform, in H264 and in HEVC, I can tell you that a minimum better result is actually obtained starting from the Cineform file: some tiny details are still visible, while using H264 or HEVC videos those details disappear. But I also remain with the doubt that this difference can also depend on starting from a 5.6K file (Cineform) instead of a 4K (H264 and HEVC).

Probably if it were possible to obtain a 5.6K H264 or HEVC, the results compared with Cineform would not be so evident (obviously starting from a file created with a GoPro MAX, not a professional Hollywood camera).


@wiljan5560  ha scritto:
And although I like the Insta360 studio software, the problem is, you can only edit 1 video shoot at the same time....My preference and best result goes to Magix Video where I can load all of my H264 4K footages (from the Exporter software) and perform the reframing, tiny planets, transitions, color corrections etc.


This is normal: it was not made for video editing, it is only for cutting a video into pieces, reframing, exporting the entire video or individual pieces for later editing with an external program. On the other hand, if you use the Insta 360 APP on your smartphone, you can also do a kind of video editing (very similar to what GoPro does with its APP), in addition to other nice things.


@wiljan5560  ha scritto:

My question was, is it technically feasible and/or is GoPro working on an update for the Exporter software, so that a .360 file can also be transferred to H264 5.6K?

Is there any good reason why 5.6K is limited to the Cineform selection button in the Exporter software?




As I have already written to you, in my opinion there are no technical problems to export a file in H264 or HEVC at 5.6K resolution (also because Insta360 already does it up to 5.7K). GoPro probably did not consider it necessary because if a user uses the APP on the smartphone or GoPro Player (for MAC) it does not even pose the problem, since all editing and reframing takes place internally and the user only has to worry about choosing the final export (usually 1920x1080 for normal use).


@wiljan5560  ha scritto:
Note....I truly doubt if Insta has a better end result, because in youtube you can find lots of comparison videos between the different camera's. And although people are saying that Insta has possibly easier software, the end result to me looks that the GoPro Max still delivers the best video quality (compared to Insta360 One R).


It depends. There are also many comparative tests that find the Insta360 OneR better.

The downside of Insta360 One R (vs MAX) is the audio quality, however if in the use you make the audio quality is important then you can connect an external microphone (also via bluetooth).

But you must also consider that at a lower price than a MAX you can buy the OneR Twin version which has two interchangeable lenses: one 360° and the other normal 4K. This means it's like having an equivalent of a GoPro MAX and a GoPro HERO 8 for the price of one.

Second (but not least) GoPro's lack of reframing software for windows. Also consider that the OneR came out in mid-January 2020, so it's fairly recent, and the firmware is updated regularly to add new features or fix problems that can happen.

In any case, neither is perfect: each has its flaws and its strengths. It is a matter of "weighing" one and the other and of evaluating according to one's own needs what is the best solution.

 

Regards

Andrea