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Tourist
Posts: 4

5k Video "Ghosting" issue

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My 5k 24fps videos are awfull. There is a weird effect, like ghosting or something, when moving camera from side to side or up and down. It almost makes me dizzy watching it. I tried different sd cards( sanddisk extreme and extreme pro), linear+hl, linear, wide, hyperboost on and off, same issue. 4k and lower is ok, just 5k videos are unwatchable!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqC5D3lkDnw

 

 

Backpacker
Posts: 8,139

Re: 5k Video "Ghosting" issue

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Your video looked fine when I played it back.  Could you be having an issue with your computer monitor by any chance?

 

Is there some other display you can try?  There were no issues viewable in your clip.

Tourist
Posts: 4

Re: 5k Video "Ghosting" issue

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Well, i have a MSI G27 165hz curved 2k monitor. On my laptop it does the same. But, i have also an older monitor and playing on it makes it better. Also i just played it on my tv and the "Ghosting" (it's an effect kind off like...the image remains behind, like it's trailing) is still there but not as bad as on my MSI monitor. What it's weird is that on the same msi monitor, playing youtube videos of 5k i do not notice anything wierd. The image is smooth and crisp.

 

For example: 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z79qTS9tso

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9-cHk-7N8k  ( to be honest this doesn;t even seem it was shoot with a gopro 9, the quality is amazing)

 

 

 

This is the unedited 5k file straight from the GoPro Hero 9. The clip was filmed in 5k | 30fps | Wide on a selfie stick (Bower - 6-in-1 Professional 36" Trip...
Everything in this video was shot at 4K or 5K in the GoPro HERO9 Black. I rounded up everything I shot this past summer while testing the HERO9 and picked ou...
Backpacker
Posts: 8,139

Re: 5k Video "Ghosting" issue

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When I play back your video, there is no ghosting, image trailing or compression artifacts.  However realize that YouTube will alter the quality of the playback depending on your internet connection.  

 

Playing back on a TV may have some ghosting if your TV is equipped with something like "Motion smoothing".  This is basically trying to software emulate extra frames while trying to "enhance" the frame rate of the video.  This doesn't work as well as most TV's would like to think and with a 24FPS this can result in a doubling of frames, especially if the camera is panning left or right.  If the camera is still and something moves in front of the camera, then the image looks ok overall, but there can be ghosting of the moviing portion of the image.

 

It basically has to do with a low HZ display (60HZ) trying to make itself look like a faster display by basically reproducing frames by introducing a fake frame rate.  So it tries to give you a 120HZ image (or 240Hz image) by introducing a black frame between these reproduced frames to give the impression of movement.  What can happen though is it doesn't match what's actually happening in camera and you see ghosting.

 

If on the other hand you have a true 165HZ monitor (which at the price point I find surprising), it could be that your monitor refresh rate may not be set up for 165HZ.  

 

The other youtube clips you linked 

Although the first one says it's a Raw 5K test, however he filmed in 5K at 30FPS and the higher frame rate will lead to a much cleaner image.  

 

The 2nd link has been heavily edited, has had lens correction added, was post processed and professionally color graded.  In most places a much higher frame rate was used and then the footage slowed down to give a much smoother and cleaner image.  The creator is actually one of GoPro's "Goto" people when it comes to creating such movies and his tutorials are excellent.  However note that to produce such a video (not just film it) he probably spent weeks if not months editings it, color grading it, lens correcting it, adding denoising filters and basically used professional studio grade equipment to make it look that way. 

 

 

 

Tourist
Posts: 4

Re: 5k Video "Ghosting" issue

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Seeing that i get different perception when whatching on multiple monitors i am starting to believe there is something wrong with my monitor.

 

So far it's like this:

On my MSI monitor i have the worst image, like i said before, looking 2-3 times in a row, makes me dizzy :\

On my lenovo G2 ARE laptop it's almost as bad as on my monitor.

On my mobile phone is ok (but it's a small screen anyway)

On my second monitor, a very old Benq 19" the trailing is okish

On my Phillips TV is okish

 

I will test tomorrow on more screens at the office. 

 

Also:

1. I looked into system in windows 10, and in advanced display settings i have 164.802 max refresh rate. See the attached screenshot.

2. This is a link to download a raw video: https://we.tl/t-TqNZQtkbaN

Just concentrate on the buildings.

3. Will test 5k 30 fps tomorrow on daylight. Somehow i got the wrong idea stuck in my head that the maximum fps is 24 on 5k :)

 

 

Capture.JPG
Backpacker
Posts: 8,139

Re: 5k Video "Ghosting" issue

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I doubt your displays are the issue.

 

Looking at the video on my cell phone, it looks fine.

Looking at the video on my laptop, there's no ghosting, but it does look "jerky" and this is because of the fact you filmed in 24FPS with no ND filter.  So instead of a smooth image with natural motion blur, you end up with a rather jerky picture which when moving from side to side, ends up looking like a replicated image in parts simple because the picture isn't updating quick enough.  This "could" be viewed as ghosting, but with ghosting, it tends to be more blurred and overlayed with frame dragging viewable.  However god knows how this looks on a 165HZ monitor.

 

Here's the skinny, when people want "cinematic" looking footage, they look up info on how to do that, and the first thing they are told is "Film in 24FPS and have your shutter speed set at double your frame rate!".  

This isn't exactly "wrong" advice, it's just not the full advice.

 

Shooting in 24FPS will give you a very jerky, not so smooth picture.  In fact, it doesn't look cinematic at all.  You also need to add an ND filter and adjust your shutter speed to double your frame rate.  This introduces "motion blur".  Meaning that "Jerky" looking picture effect is now eliminated as instead of 24 individual frames per second, you now have 24 slightly blurred frames per second (where there is motion) which blends the frame together to give a much smoother output.

 

When people don't have an ND filter handy, they usually shoot in 30FPS (or higher) with their shutter speed set to double the frame rate, and then slow their footage down by about 20% during editing to make it look much smoother.  They then render the footage out at 24FPS.  This does look much smoother, but in fast moving scenes (such as driving down a road) there may be 1 jerky frame noticable (due to the lack of not using an ND filter).  

 

So, I'm thinking the problem you're seeing is not display related, it's more shooting related and is directly related to the fact you were shooting in 24FPS with no motion blur.  In which case, congrats, you now have motion sickness!  This is probably made worse when you watch a low frame rate video on such a bid wide curved monitor.

 

I would just try shooting again, keep the frame rate at 30FPS or higher (do 60FPS in 4K) and see if the problem persists.  If it doesn't, then the issue lies with shooting in 24FPS with no motion blur.

 

 

 

 

Tourist
Posts: 4

Re: 5k Video "Ghosting" issue

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Thank your for taking time to explain. As i said before on 4k 30 or 60 fps the video is ok. Only in 5k 24fps i have the jerky video, and today i tested 5k in 30 fps and it's the same issue.Also i wasn't sure what would be the correct term to describe my issue, and i used ghosting but it' s like you said "jerky", the image seems to replicate. I am not a native english speaker so i wasn't sure what the correct term would be. So, if i want 5k i need to shoot with nd filters at 30 fps, slow down in post by 20% and render at 24 fps the final video. And yes, from all the displays i tried, my MSI 165hz is the worst :(
Nomad
Posts: 81

Re: 5k Video "Ghosting" issue

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Hi, just use a higher framerate like 50 or 60fps and this will solve your problems